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Wednesday, November 11, 2009

Canon Down 54%, Ricoh Down 69%, Xerox Down 50% - Profits? We Don't Need No Stinkin Profits...

The third quarter was not kind, here are some numbers:

Canon operating profit was down 54% year-over-year and sales down 22%

Ricoh profits were down 69%, and

Xerox profit was down a little over 50 % and sales by nearly 20%.

Konica Minolta and Kyocera also reported fall-offs in profit and have readjusted their expectations for the year and have lowered profit predictions considerably.

I don't know about you, but I can not think of too many businesses that can survive these kind of numbers.

Thank goodness "O" can't get a hold of these...wait, is Xerox "too big to fail?" -


Absolutely stunning.



  1. Greg... how about some sales and profitability numbers from HP's Imaging and Printing Group? Of course, that means you'd actually have to be able to FIND these numbers in their consolidated balance sheets... and then determine whether or not they're GAAP or non-GAAP.

    If you're going to throw out the numbers from the major players, why isn't HP included? Or maybe HP isn't considered a major player?

    Or maybe the economy still sucks?

    Always nice to read the posts of an industry celebrity. When's your next red carpet appearance? :)

  2. Anon -

    It's like we share a brain...

    I can, after a big search, find IPG numbers, and they will be way, way down as well...the article I picked this info from only mentioned the above.

    Of course, IPG is just a division of HP - the comparison between HP and Xerox is flawed - Xerox is all output, and HP is more technology.

    So, to say HP is more profitable may be a fact, but the comparison is biased.

    Like you, I would like to to see how IPG stacks up.

    Yeah - this is more about the economy and people, less about companies.

    Ah...and as for your "major player" comment...interesting...very interesting...have seen my article regarding HP NOT MAKING PRINTERS anymore?

    Keep coming back!

    PS - no red carpets in my future...

  3. I'm absolutely not surprised. As a sales manager for a copier dealer selling Ricoh and Canon, Ricoh continues to give away equipment with no profit. It was only a matter of time before it hurt there bottom line. Considering Canon lost about 50% of there marketshare from the Ikon merge I'm also not surprised by the loss of profits and sales.

  4. Anon - numbers from HP come out later this month...should be interesting...

  5. Hmmmm... this comment thread keeps getting more and more interesting... and I'm certain no one wants to share my brain. :)

    The foremost interesting observation is the immediate selection of Xerox in your comment. Not versus Canon... not versus Ricoh... not versus Konica Minolta (although those numbers would be a riot to read). You've got a track record of immediately putting the bullseye on Xerox. Seriously... is that darned Qube still bothering you?

    Second... the comment that Xerox is "all" output and HP is "more of a technology company" is not exactly accurate... and not exactly inaccurate. Both companies are technology companies. Both are output focused. Both generate significant revenues and profit from services. Then, the business models diverge. Again... it comes down to reading the balance sheets and SEC filings in detail.

    Is HP more profitable than Xerox? Probably. Is HP more profitable than the others listed? Probably. Is HP a profitable company overall? Probably. Profitability is profitability... the last time I checked, comparing a dollar to a dollar was a fair comparison.

    Third, the article you picked omitted HP. Okay, fair enough. But, everyone knows you sell HP. Omission of even a comment to the effect that HP's numbers are down or even that you wonder what HP's profitability performance might leave the impression that the mighty HP isn't suffering like everyone else in the technology sector. That said, it's your blog so you don't have to be fair and balanced... and you do allow dissenting opinions in your comments. So... that one's a wash from an objectivity standpoint.

    Regarding the other article about HP not making printers anymore, yes... I read it. After all, why wouldn't I read every single article by the darling of the industry? You make some very interesting points. However...

    If HP decides to exit the "printer market," how does it replace $29.385 billion in net revenues or 25% of total corporate net revenues (FY 2008)? IPG gross margin remained flat for FY2008... and that ain't bad at all considering the economic trainwreck that was last year.

    IPG may be down this year... but it held its own in 2008.

    Is this more about the economy and people and less about the companies? Well... yes and no. yes, the economy still sucks and people are tired of it. Is it also about the companies? Yes... because investors like that thing called "profitability."

    At least perhaps you can answer one burning question that all of your fans want to know...

    Which hot babe is going to be sitting beside you when you win the Oscar For MPS Commentary this year? Enquiring minds want to know.

  6. OK - one more time, I do not hate Xerox.

    As a matter of fact, I am striving to form an MPS relationship with Mother X, but she is refuses to entertain suitors until 2010.

    And my distinction was that Xerox is the lone American Company listed, and therefore the only potential Obama take-over target.(too big to fail)

    I say again, IPG numbers will probably reflect the same as X's and Canon, et el. But I won't know until latter this month; 23rd or 24th.

    The article I read didn't mention HP because HP hasn't released numbers yet.

    But yes, HP is more technology based than Xerox. Xerox doesn't outsell everybody else in laptops, nor does Canon manufacture Blade servers - Ricoh ain't buying the likes of 3Com or EDS.

    Here's a little nugget - it seems more possible to me that HP will one day get out of output devices - not Xerox. And a sub-nugget, HP ain't all that and a bag of chips, u feel me? ;-)

    Big X is here to stay.

    Agreed, this thread is getting interesting. All I did was re-post a press release...

    Ah yes - the burning, hot-babe question...

    I find these girls all over the internet - I don't know if they are real or not(except Fish-girl).

    And I will tell you this, I have a stable of stock "hot babe" pics yearning for articles to adorn - that's right, I sometimes find the pics first then write the articles around the image.(except Fish-Girl)

    Out of all your observations of this blog, the fact that you noticed the Hot DOTC Babes, would warm the cockles of my heart, that is if I had one.

    Alas, I fear, my elbows will never support any of those sweet Hungarian/Indian/American beauties - they don't exist.



  7. The Watcher (formerly Anonymous)November 11, 2009 at 7:59 PM

    Mother X refusing the charms of the MPS Heartthrob? What IS She thinking?

    Rhetorical questions... moving right along.

    Ladies... the MPS Heartthrob is available... line up behind the rope... he'll emerge from his dressing room shortly.

    We're watching you, Greg. We like you... we might even love you... but we're watching you.

  8. Dear Anon/Watcher,

    I have sold HP, Xerox, Canon and Ricoh printers and mfps from all but Xerox. I'm not sure if Greg has any axes to grind with the Big X, but only Canon and HP are the big players on the world stage when you look at GP and Revenue. Either company could purchase the others but have not seen fit to do so. HP is winning the game and Canon has always benefited from their success. We will see the next phase or completion of that relationship over the next three years. They are getting married after a long 20 year relationship (dating and engagement). All companies have been challenged over the past 18 months, only the best will survive and some new providers will emerge. HP and Canon are here to stay. I think Xerox and Ricoh will also make the turn. I'm not sure of the rest that dabble in output, with the exception of Samsung.

    Joe B.

  9. Joe - no Axes to grind just yet...but if and when I ever do, there will be no doubt who the target of my wrath and scorn is.

    For now, all is flowers and unicorns...

    I see your point - and honestly hadn't considered the bit players.

    Sharp, Toshiba, Kyocera, etc. I wonder how life is treating them...


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